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Monster classes
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HankSpawn
6 Posts
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October 19, 2012 - 11:53 am

I was wondering what your reasons were for coming up with a seperate Monster class vs. the four Player classes.  I enjoy alternating between the original four characters, but am a bit wary of unlocking any "monsters" mainly because of their inability to equip most items.  Using the available Tourist or Dungeoneer can be an occasionally different, but ultimately frustrating experience due to their limitations.  Dinoman probably comes closest to a Monster class character, but still is able to pick up an item here and there.

 

Has anyone come close to Satan using a Monster class?  If you have unlocked any, who is your favorite?

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Craggle
4 Posts
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October 23, 2012 - 7:49 pm

I really like this game, and spent a lot of time playing the main classes. I eventually got to a point where I was able to beat the game on rogue difficulty with both the fairy wizard and the crusader, but I hit a wall with the skellyman scoundrel (only getting as far as the second boss) and the dinoman bruiser (again, only getting as far as the second boss). Needless to say, I got pretty bored playing just the main character classes, so one day in a fit of spending I just went ahead and unlocked all the monster classes. Since then, I've been playing the monster classes pretty much exclusively.

 

Believe it or not, the fact that you can't equip items on monsters is actually a pretty major benefit. It allows you to use the monster classes to accumulate a few really nice items in your locker for later play-throughs with your main class of choice. Whenever I find a nice item, like say a +2 bow, I'll stash it in the locker. Then on subsequent playthroughs with monsters I'll buy scrolls from the vendors with my gold and when I find the first locker I'll use the scrolls to enchant the equipment further. After a few playthroughs of doing this, your +2 bow becomes a +5 bow and you can have a really great head start with your skellyman scoundrel the next time you play her.

 

That being said, there are certainly monsters that I like more than others. I really like playing as the dungeoneer, necromeister, and white knight. Even the zombie can be very fun (but also frustrating since it seems like he has a cap on how far he can go, at least in rogue difficulty). 

 

I really, REALLY dont like playing as the rogue-bot, and although the mystic is fun, I find that it's really difficult to get her past dungeon 1 or 2 on rogue difficulty since she's so squishy. The ranged monsters you face in those levels tend to annihilate me very quickly.

 

If you're looking at buying just one monster character, I'd recommend getting either the white knight or the necromeister, but keep in mind, it really comes down to how you like to play.

 

The necromeister uses his own hp as a mana pool for most of his spells and has no default auto-attack, so you'll find yourself having to play a fairly risky game, especially in the first few levels before you get yourself your first summon. The white knight is a lot like the crusader in terms of playstyle, but he moves slower, has better stat scaling with levels, and seems to be a little more squishy in the late game, depending on how you build his skills.

 

I just recently had a really great game with white knight on rogue difficulty where I made it to Satan before dying (Satan killed me in about 6 turns, so I think I need to re-jigger my build a bit), which is the farthest I was able to get with any monster class other than the dungeoneer.

 

By the way, I know you said you think dungeoneer is a little weak, but in my experience he's one of the strongest classes in the game. I had a much easier time beating satan with him on rogue difficulty than I did with any of the other classes. Just start the game out by upgrading his cloaking device with your first point, and use that to get away if you get into any sticky situations. After you get your second point, put it into the ranged shot skill, and then proceed to faceroll everything in the game from long range. Again, don't take any risks. You should always keep a decent amount of mana on hand for those situations where you need to cloak and get some distance. You can also use cloak offensively to clear a large room, just walk in, cloak, and start shooting. Nothing will attack you while you're cloaked (except for bosses). By the time you get to Satan you should make sure you have Full Auto since that's the skill that will save your butt when you're fighting Satan's bats.

 

Sorry for the long read, that's just my 2 cents.

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HankSpawn
6 Posts
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October 29, 2012 - 11:58 am

Craggle, thanks for the detailed(!) response.  Reading your post inspired me to go and purchase the White Knight and the Necromeister, which I experimented with over the weekend.  I do enjoy the Knight, who is a great brawler with some great skills.  The Necromeister is intriguing, though a much tougher character to play with.  You really have to think about your strategy with a character who pretty much looses health points on every move.  I even revisited the dungeoneer, using your strategies, with much better success.

 

I must say that I'm still amazed at people like you and others who can breeze through the game at rogue level.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong but 100 Rogues is still challenging enough for me at normal.  It's the mark of a great game that I can still loose over and over again (I've beaten Satan once, as the wizard) and still come back for more.

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Craggle
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October 31, 2012 - 7:07 pm

Craggle, thanks for the detailed(!) response.

No problem!

 

I'm glad I could inspire you to try some of the monster classes, they really can be a lot of fun! 🙂

I must say that I'm still amazed at people like you and others who can breeze through the game at rogue level.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong but 100 Rogues is still challenging enough for me at normal.

I wouldnt say I "breeze" through the game on rogue. For every game that I make it to satan, there are probably 20-25 games where I die before I even get to the second boss. A lot of what determines a good rogue difficulty game is how lucky you get with your loot.

 

Sometimes everything will go your way. You'll find rooms packed with chests that have potions and food. You'll find extra monster manuals and heal meals. Enemies will miss those attacks that would have killed you. You'll only find one or two of those pesky "rare" monsters like roguebots and red rats.

 

Sometimes, the game is out to get you. Every chest you open will contain a beetle. You'll never find any food. Teleport pads will be in your way and will port you back to the farthest point from the exit. Enemies will never miss. You'll attack that damn bat 20 times in a row and miss every. single. time. You'll walk down the stairs into bandit hole 2 and be immediately hemmed in by a group of 4-5 red rats which will kill you after clearing only one floor.

 

This game can be just as much about luck as it can be about patience and strategy.

 

If I could give you one piece of advice though, it would be:

"Start trying to recognize when you could die."

 

What I mean is, start familiarizing yourself with how much damage every monster does, and really pay attention to the potential damage you could take in any given turn.

 

If you find yourself in a room full of enemy monsters, start thinking about minimizing that damage, or if you realize that you COULD take fatal damage in the next turn, try to do something to prevent your possible death (which doesnt always mean you need to take a potion or heal yourself with a spell). There have been times in this game where I've saved myself from dying by throwing a mana potion like a grenade to take out ranged attackers in the back of a group of monsters, or by using a sleepy dart to neutralize a monster that would have otherwise blocked my exit from a room.

 

Pay attention to those moments where you might die, and start to figure out ways to get out of those situations alive.

 

That's the key to being able to make it to satan on rogue difficulty!

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HankSpawn
6 Posts
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November 1, 2012 - 12:14 pm

Monster class update: (all playing at normal level)

 

Defeated Satan with the dungeoneer!

 

Reached Satan using the White Knight but was soon killed.  Without a ranged attack, beating Satan seems next to impossible.

 

As far as the Necromeister, I don't know.  Aside from throwing things, there seems to be no way of attacking without loosing health and energy.  So far I've never even got past the genie. 

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Craggle
4 Posts
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November 2, 2012 - 2:34 pm

I had the same problem with the white knight against satan. I'm thinking next time I'm going to try to take some of the more defensive skills that debuff accuracy of monsters or reduce damage to you. Also, the wall of swords skill might be pretty useful too, and I didn't have that last time.

 

I've only made it to satan once so far with him, and I've been focusing on my skellyman scoundrel for the last few days. Speaking of which, I finally made it to satan with the skellyman scoundrel, but I was killed pretty quickly since I didnt have any method to heal myself. I'm not really sure what I'm going to do about that either.

 

But I digress…

 

With the necromeister I'd recommend taking Death Bolt as your first skill.

 

Use death bolt as many times as you can to kill monsters and stay as far away as possible. You start with 14 HP which gives you 4 solid death bolts (assuming you don't regen any hp between kills) before your health is dangerously low. Ideally, you should kill 4 monsters with those death bolts, although sometimes it will take 2 bolts (or more if you're unlucky) to kill one monster.

 

In the first bandit hole, take things slowly. Pull only small groups of monsters and kill as many as you can before you get low. After your health is low, find a corner somewhere safe, and hold down the green skip button to regenerate your health. If there are monsters nearby, move away a bit and try again. Keep in mind that you start off with 2 heal meals. You have plenty of belly to get started, dont be afraid to use the rest function to keep your health high in the beginning.

 

Continue on like this until you obtain your second level and your second skill point. Buy Raise Dead with your second skill, and start using the corpses of the dead monsters to raise skeletons. After this point you should be able to start to move much more quickly. Your skeletons are quite strong and have a pretty high chance (it seems like somewhere between 20-40%) to ressurect after they die. If one of your skeletons does die, just raise another from the body of a nearby dead monster. Let your skeletons do all the heavy lifting, and dont cast any more death bolts unless you're really in a jam. If you're having trouble with positioning, keep in mind that tapping a monster on screen will make your skeletons focus on attacking that monster.

 

Once you get your next skill point you have a choice:

  1. If you're still having trouble with your health, you can pick up vampiric rain. Be careful when using this move, it can kill your own minions and it costs a lot of mana. I dont typically pick this up until very late in the game.
  2. You can get phantom. This can be a useful short term summon, but it dies very quickly, is pretty unpredictable, and, again, is very costly in terms of mana. The main reason to get this is to get offering so you can use junk items to make your summons even stronger.
  3. You can get another point in raise dead. This is what I usually do. It raises the cap on the number of skeletons you can summon by 2 (from 2 to 4) and they hit harder and have more hp.

From then on you'll probably want to get phantom if you dont already have it, and then follow that up with offering. After I get offering, I'll put my next point(s) into raise dead, and if I make it even further I usually grab vampiric rain at that point or start maxing out phantom.

 

If you're this far into the build, you're probably in the later dungeon levels or in hell. The key to doing well in these areas is making sure that you dont let the ranged monsters kill you. Always be aware that you're squishy and you need to try to stay as far back as you can.

 

Keep in mind that you can rest if you have to. I usually evaluate how much food I have and if I have some reserves I'll use rest when I get very low. If you're low on food, try to go slow again. Really focus on not getting hit, and make sure you're positioning yourself AND your skeletons in hallways or doorways. Remember the lessons you've learned with other characters. Skeletons are your proxy character. They're doing all the fighting for you, so dont be careless with how they are positioned. It can be hard to get them to do what you want, but if you can manage it, remember to let them fight in areas where they're not gettiing surrounded on all sides.

 

If you do make it this far, beware of the succubi! They can confuse your skeletons and make them turn on you. If that happens it can be helpful to have obtained sacrifice since you can just sac the confused skeleton and summon another, but I usually just try to kill the succubi with phantom/deathbolt/rain/throwables before she has a chance to confuse anything.

 

I haven't yet made it to satan with the necromeister, but then again I am playing on rogue. Perhaps I'll play a few games on normal and see what happens! 

 

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention. Be careful on the levels after a major boss fight. The bosses have a global monster kill built in when they die. This WILL kill your skeletons as well as any of the monsters left from the fight. If you're lucky, some of your skeletons will ressurect themselves, but most of the time I have to start from scratch in Dungeon 1 and Hell 1.

 

Edit 2: Also also, when you max out your raise dead skill and get 6 skeletons, be prepared for the game to slow down some. The skeletons can be kind of a pain in the ass as you move around because they'll teleport in front of you or near you when they get too far behind. Just remember that they'll die for you if need be! Smile

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HankSpawn
6 Posts
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7
November 2, 2012 - 8:27 pm

Thanks again Craggle!

 

If they ever write the game guide I hope they call you!

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