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Let's talk about ROGUE MODE
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Keith Burgun
257 Posts
(Offline)
1
May 8, 2011 - 11:10 pm

So!  You guys have been playing with Rogue Mode available for awhile now.  In general, I think it's the ONLY way to play for an experienced player, because it presents you with interesting decisions with the highest frequency.  However, I'm sure it's far from perfect.  So here are some major questions I have for you guys.

 

1.  How much have you played Rogue Mode?  What % of your games are Rogue Mode games, and how many games have you played of it (roughly)?

 

2.  How far have you been able to get in Rogue Mode, and with what consistency?

 

3.  I obviously want Rogue Mode to be super-hard… Ideally, I'd like it to be the sort of thing that takes a player years of experience to be able to beat, because 100 Rogues is not, and has never been a game that is about completion.  However, I don't want there to be any obvious "walls" in the difficulty – I hope that the game is HARD, but somewhat smoothly increasing in difficulty as you go through the game.  Are there any BRICK WALLS that you simply feel are imbalanced?  Also, are there any lulls where the game kicks into neutral for awhile?  I want it to always be interesting but also to feel fair.  I suspect there are 2-3 parts that are a bit on the unfair side, particularly for some classes.

 

4.  Class balance in Rogue Mode?  Generally, it seems like the game is much harder with the Scoundrel than it is with the other two classes… We'll be making a change to her in the next patch which should address some of this.  Have you beaten the game with all 3 classes?

 

Anyway, please leave us some feedback on Rogue Mode.  This mode is near and dear to my heart and I want it to be as enjoyable as possible for our fans who love 100 Rogues the most!

 

-Keith Burgun, Lead Designer

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eyenot
1 Posts
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2
May 9, 2011 - 7:32 am

1. I use normal mode to learn a game and then play it in the hardest mode available. I usually find that a game's hardest mode is how it was originally designed and that lesser modes are stripped down versions. Since you introduced rogue mode it's the inly way I've played.

2. I never even beat the game until I played rogue mode, but, I learned about drinking potions to increase max health and energy and that's what more or less did it for me. I win every time I play, now.

3. I just exploit everything and kick all of it's butt. Like when I would play Quake II, I would save ammo in the last level by getting enemies to shoot each other, and it became obvious that it was intended to be done that way. The wizard kicks so much butt I don't even know why people play as anything else. But as skelly, I think the wall is everything. I can't get skelly to the genie, even. The tourist is in the same boat. And i don't think the game ever lulls.

4. I have been saving the paladin for if I ever get bored. The skelly is insanely underpowered and helpless. The wizard is matchless in the whole game. The tourist is such a crazy game, just throwing things everywhere... I can't make a call on the tourist because I haven't had a chance to throw everything, yet.

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Nero
8 Posts
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3
May 17, 2011 - 2:37 am

I play all mine on rogue now, but I have problems with all but the wizard.

With Crusader I can reliably get through to the dungeon, but he is incredibly vulnerable to zombies, to the point where you are dead whenever you see them. 5-10 range damage depending on your armor, plus 3 damage poison, times 4 zombies? It's impossible to defend against, even with martydom or whatever the reflection ability is called. I think the problem is that by wielding a bow you sacrifice the necessary heater or tower to deflect the zombie bits, so you are required to charge. And there is no ranged magic ability (besides the laser sword, which is next to useless against them) that can take them down. The crusader's best bet is to stockpiles magic potions, but 2 potions to kill 2 zombies? Seems a bit rediculous.

 

With Rogue-Bot, which I have experimented with heavily, there doesn't seem to be any good way to insure success. So much of the bot's playstyle depends on monster orientation and clusters. Also, the lack of a non-magic ranged weapon, and horrible armor and melee, make the rogue bot much more difficult against bosses like the genie or in extended fights, like the big rooms in the dungeon, or against multiple necromancers, even with splash damage.

 

The problem with tourist is that thrown weapons suck, with the exception of the bowling ball, and throwing knives, before they vanish.

 

Rogue difficulty in general is skewed in the favor of range and magic, what with groups of 4 beetles, 3 snipers, a billion skelli-archers, etc, making the wizard the only truly viable choice. Scoundrel is so weak on this difficulty because she lacks both magic damage AND range, due to the bad marksman skill tree.

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Justine
28 Posts
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4
May 17, 2011 - 10:01 am

All my games are played with rogue difficulty.

Wizard: Consistently defeat Satan, unless I get bored and go for a telestab build. With Purify starvation is not an issue and teleport + wanding mean that with careful gameplay success is guaranteed. Last Satan kill with +1 wand and unenchanted starting robes. No farming for potions or deliberate starvation avoidance.

Crusader: Haven't really played that much. Will report back on this.

Scoundrel: Hard, but entertaining. She's regrettably weak compared to her compatriots, but can kick serious butt every now and then. Success relies very heavily on loot drops. Smoke Bomb seems less useful than is desired, pickpocket cripples survivability (As you get hit a LOT). All my scoundrels are melee builds as the markswoman build is not very satisfying. Some talents seem underpowered, and especially Crit bonus seems to do a lot less than is needed. Also, not being able to self-heal killing skeletons a big issue.

Tourist: Fun and frantic. Bosses are often a brick wall, but I suppose monster classes are more for fun than success.

Rogue-Bot: Fun, if a bit one-sided. Lovin' the bottin', but there's really only one talent path for even a decent chance of survival. Melee is a no go unless you get exceptionally lucky with drops and get a ton of enchant scrolls. Bomb-pet is suicide and taken only to get morph ball.

Overall: Wizard outshines all other classes in performance. With zero gear requirement for success, infallible starvation avoidance and reliable bonus skills (spellbooks as opposed to the runes) there's really no competition.

Suggestion: Have starvation reduce maximum HP and energy at certain intervals. That would make intentional avoidance unappealing without making it an automatic death-sentence.

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rdermyer
Lawrence, KS
80 Posts
(Offline)
5
May 17, 2011 - 3:23 pm

A quick "if starving, then mana-regen = 0" would also minimize taking advantage of outhealing starvation.

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Justine
28 Posts
(Offline)
6
May 18, 2011 - 3:57 am

It would, but it would also make accidental starvation catastrophic. Sometimes starvation can't be avoided and players should not be unduly punished for having bad RNG.

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JohnH
1 Posts
(Offline)
7
June 30, 2011 - 12:28 am

My favorite class is the Crusader, because as others have noted, the Wizard seems to be fairly easy.  I've managed to win once on Rogue mode with the Crusader.  The key is to play carefully.  If you end up in a room surrounded by monsters on all sides you probably won't survive, so you have to use doorways effectively.  If you take a step and see four zombies, then the next step you take after that should be back the way you came.

This might seem a bit strange, but my favorite skill in the game is Martyrin'.  What Martyrin' does is dilute the opposition.  It can turn a room of four missile firers into a room of two or even one, giving you time to either retreat or kill the unaffected ones.  It doesn't hurt at all that, sometimes, it causes "monster infighting," where another monster is so disgusted with the pacifistic behavior of one of his comrades that it attacks it.

After Martyrin', my next priority is usually Healing.  It's not as effective as Purify, but once it gets to level 2 or 3 it becomes a lifesaver.

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Hater Slayer the third
26 Posts
(Offline)
8
July 5, 2011 - 5:53 pm

I love rogue mode. The Fairy is just ridiculous, i can beat satan 50% of the time. The Crusador is has only killed satan once on rogue mode giving him a 2% chance. Mrs. Skelly is absolute veak, VEAK like the UKRAINE, i cant get even to the pope. The necromancer is my next project, He has a really rough starting game, running away from brown rats, thats sad. But once you get him going he is okay. The wall of death is hell 3, it is super amazingly more difficult than hell 2. I think you shouldn't nerf hell 3 but boost hell 2. Thats my two cents

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